Full Room Treatment & Room Correction

BadEnglish

Well-known member
Are they complement each other, or just supplement ?

I understand those room without a proper treatment needs room correction application but ...
I have seem so many rooms which were treated very well professionally or diyly ( based on charts of RT60, Frequency decay , swap etc. ) and yet owners of these room still use full Room Correction application.

Since the rooms were very good, why RCs are still use ?
 

boxerfan88

Well-known member
?Simple, my dear Watson!?

Because one can never reach the ?perfect room? just by using physical room treatment devices [emoji12]


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boxerfan88

Well-known member
On a more serious note?

Room treatment is only effective for lowmid-upper frequencies.

It?s almost impossible to treat the low frequencies (LF) because the wavelength is just too long for any physical absorber/reflector. Therefore RC/EQ is the option available to deal with LF issues.


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BadEnglish

Well-known member
boxerfan88 said:
?Simple, my dear Watson!?

Because one can never reach the ?perfect room? just by using physical room treatment devices [emoji12]


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I'm not referring to a perfect room or some simply treated room like yours.  I'm referring to those rooms that spend so much money on treatment like one panel a few hundreds. End up a few ten of thousands just for room treatments  :p
 

Francishuang

Active member
The relentless pursuit for perfection?

BadEnglish said:
I'm not referring to a perfect room or some simply treated room like yours.  I'm referring to those rooms that spend so much money on treatment like one panel a few hundreds. End up a few ten of thousands just for room treatments  :p
 

BadEnglish

Well-known member
Francishuang said:
The relentless pursuit for perfection?

That's the one point that can be considered, assuming that RT and RC are complement.
I'm still trying to grap the idea of complementing  8)
 

boxerfan88

Well-known member
BadEnglish said:
I'm not referring to a perfect room or some simply treated room like yours.  I'm referring to those rooms that spend so much money on treatment like one panel a few hundreds. End up a few ten of thousands just for room treatments  :p
Maybe can ask those audiophiles why they use RC in those massively treated rooms?

It?ll be interesting to to find out where the RC is used in those room? Full range? Below Schroeder frequency?


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BadEnglish

Well-known member
boxerfan88 said:
Maybe can ask those audiophiles why they use RC in those massively treated rooms?

It?ll be interesting to to find out where the RC is used in those room? Full range? Below Schroeder frequency?


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As long as I understood, FULL RANGE  ;D
 

boxerfan88

Well-known member
BadEnglish said:
I asked you, then you asked me back. So I ask you again ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

If it is full range RC, I guess he/she trying to achieve this room response:

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Joamonte

Member
Errrr?? maybe those have use Eq has not done the room treatment correctly or they have use the wrong speaker for the room? ;D

But if u r refer to HT, than either they using the EQ to match the all speaker tonal or voice the system ,actually  ?room correction ? only reduce peak of bass standing wave at MLP , but it cannot do anything to solve the dip like room treatment able to do?.it is wield everyone call it ?room correction ? where it actually only correct the speaker output to match the MLP IMHO
 

BadEnglish

Well-known member
Joamonte said:
Errrr?? maybe those have use Eq has not done the room treatment correctly or they have use the wrong speaker for the room? ;D

...

There is always a possible : BOTH  ;D
 

boxerfan88

Well-known member
As seen elsewhere... very insightful post...

After all, speakers do need EQ and which is done either in the passive or active crossover.

With this in mind, you ask a valid and important question. EQ of the room response will almost always comes with some kind of compromises. Raising low frequency dips wil for instance increase distortion. Reducing low frequency peaks with many dBs will often reduce dynamics and make the response worse in other parts of the room. And neither of these deal with the harmonics of the frequency one is addressing. Most of the room response isn't minimum phase behaviour, meaning the phase will not follow when the frequency is changed. This will lead to phase distortion. How audible that is very much depends, but generally is much more audible for midrange and treble than lows.
However, using shelving to tailor the response to the room/placement and music taste without doing anything with dips and peaks is fine. And it's also needed considering we listen at various distances and have different reinforcement from the boundaries.

Room treatment doesn't suffer from the compromises EQ has and actually makes the room response more minimum phase as long as the treatment is of high quality. As long as we are listening with boundaries, the room will effect the sound quality greatly no matter how good the speakers are. Naked paralell surfaces will create flutter-echo and comb filtering. The close proximity of boundaries create standing waves. Especially the important time domain behaviour and certain psycoacoustic cues can only be improved with physical treatment.

That being said, speaker design react differently in rooms. You can take two different speaker designs, and one will measure considerably more even than the other. And while treatment can get them closer, some room interaction isn't easily treatable. For example the floor bounce. Thus a great speaker design will take the room into consideration and that's always where we want to start. Creating problems that needs to be fixed later is never optimal.

So with that in mind, there are speaker designs that are to some degree "flawed" or of less quality. Many of the speakers that we see scoring high in spinoramas are in my opinion quite mediocre. Place them in a room, and the response in part of the frequency range will not be particular even and there are other issues like intermodulation distortion and thermal distortion. Fixing uneven response with "room correction" doesn't work very well, and the distortion issues can't be solved either. Correcting parts of the uneven response with treatment is difficult and sometimes impossible.

So start with the very best speaker design and desired beamwidth, treat the room as well as possible, and use EQ to tailor the general response by listening. Most likely you are not going to need the multiple subwoofer approach or EQ in the lows to achieve a flat bass response with the combination of optimizing placement and room treatment in such a room.
 

boxerfan88

Well-known member
Pretty good and insightful video about room correction/tuning... 1hr long though.

Interesting points made about speaker directivity and the interaction with the room, resulting in different in-room responses. It was insightful when they shared two speakers that measured flat in an anechonically, when placed into the listening room, ended up with different frequency response curves.

Very good advice/guidelines, first tune to a curve that one prefers (may or may not be flat), then use the system for several days/weeks, thereafter fine tune to fix the parts you don't like.

They also stated the obvious -- each person's preferred tonality curve can be different.

I enjoyed their banter too. :D

 
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